{{{{{Heart}}}}}

Why are personal vendettas tolerated over there? Is hate speech fair game? Does the board have any standards at all?

Aletha

Well, one good thing that might come of it, besides the insights I think we've all gleaned, is, maybe Amp will now have the unparalleled pleasure and thrill of dealing with the Fest boards anti-feminists and trolls. That's all kinds of good in a few ways I can think of.

I know you had some hopes over there, which is one reason I was over there. There are a few radical feminist stragglers over there, heh, and they apparently want to be there because they post there all the time; I'd rather they get a real opportunity to say what they have to say than see them hounded off, as ginmar was and others have been. A thread for radical feminists might have allowed for that. Which doesn't mean it wouldn't really amount to a ghetto in the ways char described, which is an issue and a problem.

Eh. Well, one thing I have rarely been accused of is insufficient amounts of courage.

Heart

I don't know if that statement was ever printed in an article for any publication, Heart.... I think it was just on my own personal website. I did write a few articles for a fundie magazine (:puke:) but I don't believe that ever got into any of the few articles I wrote for that publication... and that's the only publication that I'm aware of, that my words were ever printed in. But I may be wrong... it's been awhile ago.

Also, you say you think it's "funny" now but I don't and still grieve over the fact that that statement hurt you. {{{{}}}} When I wrote that, you were already out of that mindset and culture and way. You didn't headcover or wear dresses exclusively and had left your abusive ex, etc. etc. So, through my own (obviously erroneous) logic, I thought that you yourself were sorry you ever got sucked up in that culture and therefore dressed or looked like that. So, the honest to goddess reaction I thought you would have if you ever read that statement was.. "Yeah, I don't blame him. That outfit was a doozie, wasn't it?!!!" and just nod your head in agreement. That's the honest truth. I thought that's the reaction you would have since you were already out of that whole thing and I was surprised as hell when you said you were hurt.

Thank you for stating I don't have to be worried about this, at least from your view, Heart... but I still don't like the fact that it bothered you and hurt you then, when I honestly and truly spoke it at a time when I thought it wouldn't. The fact that you still mention it today, means to me that it's left a hurtful imprint on you and that's not the kind of imprint I ever again want to leave on any womon.

But, you know what? I'm conscious now of imprints left on wimin and that's something I never was before. That's one of the many good things I've learned here.... one of the many.

We can't always go on with our lives regretting our past politics and thinking though, can we. It's where we were at the time and that's that. That's why I hate to see all this past shit rehashed again on this bulletin board and elsewhere on the net (from what I'm reading here... I don't go to WhutsHizName's blog anymore and I rarely visit the Fest boards either). I hate past shit rehashed period! I mean, I'm glad Sophia is so eloquently defending you, Heart... someone who knows you and know the facts and can straighten anybody's ass out on them. But I hate the fact that it's necessary at all and truthfully, I don't think those who are trying to disparage you care one bit about the facts.

I've come to realize that no matter how much you defend yourself against others who hate you, they're going to continue anyhow. I read an article one time disparaging everything Mother Theresa was doing over there in Calcutta. The article cut the woman to the bone. I could hardly believe it. So, that's what I guess made me realize that if folks hate you, they hate you and if they can't get you on this, they'll try to get you on that... and if all else fails, they'll find fault with how you wipe your butt after you poop (even though they have no idea how you wipe your butt after you poop!!). It's just the way of (mostly) male humanity and those humans who are under the patriarchial thumb.

~LearningOne

So right what you've said there about haters. Very, very true. If someone wants to hate you, they just do, and what is true doesn't matter, only what they can use to justify or spread their hatred. And also so true that we can't go forward regretting our pasts or past politics, either. We are the sum total of all of our past experiences, all of our decisions, all of the chapters of our lives have made us what we are, and in our case, that is something to be really proud of, not anything to be ashamed of.

Part of it with me, and maybe with you, as well, is, it's so hard to describe our old world to people who were never part of it. And it's aggravating when people misunderstand something that in many ways was very beautiful. I think the communities we created, as women, in our old world were beautiful. I think *so* much of what we did in our old world was not only beautiful and inspiring but very, very feminist. When some woman comes along who really does understand, I want to just hug her!

I got an e-mail, in fact, the other day, from a woman, a feminist, also with a background in our old world, that was so satisfying to me. I think I'll get it and post it because she expressed some of what I am saying here so well.

Well, hugs to you, LearningOne, and again, thanks for those good and peaceable words.

Heart

***

I have met you through reading Alas a Blog. Strange I never heard of you before, our lives overlap in many areas.

I have homeschooled/unschooled my six children since the early 80's. My two oldest girls are 23 and 25. I have also been a farmer, gardener, simple liver for the last 30 years.

I too was a activist in the civil rights, anti-war movement in the sixties which I retreated from for years to raise my family but have now returned to.

I have also suffered the dissolution of a 26 year relationship with my husband recently (2000) although thankfully not in such a public fashion as your own.

I have witnessed the narrowing of the homeschool movement from the early glory days where all were accepted to the mandatory "statements of faith" and the taliban-like scrutiny of one's life.

I had all my children at home with my farmer/friend/laymidwife. I did the whole breastfeeding until two or a new baby was born, cloth diapers, baby in bed with me, toddler in bed with me, six year old in bed with me, total immersion with kids thing. And I did it because I loved it. I loved birth, babies, the whole thing (except the worry associated with loving deeply).

We never had TV, heated with wood, milked cows (14 by hand) until we increased to 40 and got Surge bucket milkers. Always had junk cars to drive, no money, but frugally paid off our 120 acre farm we bought .
With all our common links I am surprised I never encountered you before Alas. And now you are a feminist. How nice. So am I.

I guess the Christian Homeschool Gestapo shut down the gossip network when it came to your story as Harris, Pride, et all came out looking, well, unchristian.

Anyway I am happy to have discovered you and your interesting life, and am very happy you have discovered you are a feminist through such a circuitous route. You must have wonderful insight to offer. I have often thought that strong birthing, nursing women are the ultimate feminists. Women who embrace their womanness and don't bring the droves of male experts into the whole process to "take care of them".

*******

Just hard to convey the way we women built worlds within a really patriarchal world, ultimately how threatening what we were doing was to the patriarchs, the lengths they went to to control and regulate us.

Heart

I just wanted to add that I remember when all of this first began to take off. I had read GS in the early 90's, during the headcovering, no birth control days. I got them passed down to me from a home schooling mom who was totally enamored by the whole lifestyle. Then the big drama began... so sad and Heart you are one helluva woman to have withstood that vile attack.

I just wonder though if any of those involved see that the very thing they fought against...they helped to perpetuate by their actions. They only revealed themselves to be downright evil imo. I had always had a weird feeling about HSLDA and all of the legalistic home schooling propaganda out there. Then I read Raymond Moore's White Paper and then I heard the details about everything Cheryl was going through....wow, let me tell you, it set me FREE. I felt totally released, totally free from trying so fricking hard to meet those standards set before me. And putting my poor kids through all of that. AGGHHHHH

Anyway, Heart, I'm so so glad you survived. What a tribute you are!

Annette

This is true and I considered that when I posted what I knew to refute the lies about Heart's past experiences with the RR. I realized that no matter what was refuted, the haters would hate no matter what. The reason I felt it necessary, and you're right, I wish it wasn't necessary, was because the lies were put forth very publicly and blatantly and the record needed setting straight publicly, not for the benefit of the haters but for anyone else reading those lies. Speaking our truth is something so important. You have to weigh it, decide whether or not it's worth it, and sometimes the lies are so heinous you just know it's worth speaking up.

And to refer to what Heart said about living out her life in integrity in each phase of her life, yeah. It's hard to do that. It's hard in part because when you grow and change and attempt to live your life in consonance with your changed self, so many try to hold up the integrity of your former life and beliefs and out you as a hypocrite. I get that so much in my personal life especially. I've changed much along the same lines as several women here who have come out or are coming out of patriarchal belief systems and as I continue to live my life in integrity to my beliefs, my life evidences those changes as well, sometimes very dramatically, and that's really hard for people who are vested in things staying the same, in people staying the same.

MTF's, for example, spend a whole lot of effort trying to persuade others that they've held a consistent view of themselves as women throughout their lives, that THAT hasn't changed, THEY haven't changed inside, they've merely changed their bodies to align with what is and has been true for them all their lives. A MTF calling Heart out on what may appear to them to be "hypocricy" in her life experience tells me more about them than about her. Most people DO grow and change over a lifetime especially if they have the personal integrity to express overtly the beliefs they hold and change over time.

Sophia