Winter
Death, Life, Transformation

The second wave of feminism, rather than having crashed onto the shore, is still far out to sea, slowly and inexorably gathering momentum. None of us who are alive today will witness more than the first rumbles of the coming social upheaval. Middle-class western women have the privilege of serving the longest revolution, not of directing it. The ideological battles that feminists are engaged in are necessary, but they are preliminary to the emergence of female power, which will not flow decorously out from the universities or from the consumerist women's press. Female power will rush upon us in the persons of women who have nothing to lose, having lost everything already. It could surge up in China where so many women divorced for bearing girl children are living and working together, or in Thailand, where prositution and AIDS are destroying a generation, in Iran or anywhere else where women are on a collision course with Islamic fundamentalism, or anywhere the famished laborer sees luxury foods for the western market grown on the land which used to provide for her and her children. And the women of the rich world had better hope that when female energy ignites they do not find themselves on the wrong side.
--Germaine Greer, The Whole Woman, 1999

Carry yourself as one who will change the world, because you will.
--Robin Morgan

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Conferences Feminist Theory -- Woman Only Space Topic #63
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Hearrtadmin
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Dec-04-02, 12:42 PM (PMT)
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"Stripper Rant"
 
   Here's a stripper's satisfyingly vituperative judgments on her "clients". She is spot on, too, as far as I'm concerned, a refreshing change from all the "Oh, stripping is so empowering!" crapola. Argh.

Naked truths

My clients are all leery, needy, hostile, angry, creepy and ultimately dysfunctional, says the stripper

Catlin Gunn
Wednesday November 20, 2002
The Guardian

'Would you like to stay for another dance?" I ask sweetly. He looks me up and down in grim appraisal, makes a miserable face and says,"Not if that was your best effort."

In the same sugary tone I tell him that maybe if he wasn't so repulsive then girls might want to get a bit closer to him. When I'm dressed again and opening the door of the dance booth, I mention that he might like to try losing a few stones and a few years.

I get his change from the bar, ball it up and toss it in his general direction. He's still trying to look like "he's the man" despite the fact he has to scrabble around on the floor to find his tenner.

I don't do this often. I have learned that the best way to make it through the night is to swallow my tongue and let the insults wash over me. It's clear that a lot of the guys who come to strip bars are here to get their revenge on women. I can usually spot them. It's an expression of distaste they wear permanently - whether it's a handsome young blade, a suited business man or, like last night's guy, a bloated, sagging, professional onanist, whose sallow pallor, slack features and faint fishy reek indicate a bitter life misspent.

Sometimes I panic that all men are serious women-haters, but then I catch myself, think about my men friends - my funny, clever, warm, intelligent friends - and remind myself that the men I meet aren't necessarily a healthy cross-section of male society.

The problem is that every week I am exposed to about 100 men who are leery, needy, hostile, angry, creepy and ultimately dysfunctional. Even if these guys have other fine qualities I'm only getting the negative ones - the secret Mr Hydes whose wives think they are having a couple of drinks with friends.

Last night a handsome married man in his early 30s proudly told me about his four-year-old son and another one on the way, just moments before begging me to let him touch my breasts as I dance in front of him.

"Why not?" he asks, completely uncomprehending.

"What's wrong with you?" I reply.

Another is in his late 40s with dad and husband written all over him. I chat politely with him about his illusory life, careful not ask too many tricky questions that might prove difficult for him to answer since he is clearly not what he pretends to be.

We get into a bit of hot water when I ask about his fictional work. Does he enjoy it? What does it involve? When he starts to flounder I gently steer the conversation elsewhere. He launches into a diatribe about feminism. He is apparently a staunch defender of the cause. The word feminist comes up about five times as he stares deep into my bra. He's trying so hard to pretend he's nice and single that he doesn't notice how drunk he's getting and by the end of the night married dad is drooling down his shirt and telling me how he would love to piss on my tits.

There are countless men with wedding rings, clearly on display. Countless others sit and happily tell me about their girlfriends before paying a naked girl to dance around for them and plead for a little bit more. There are others who delude themselves, though not me, that they are young, free and single though they are clearly old, tired and married.

"I wish I'd met you in a normal bar. It's such a shame you're not allowed to come home with me. Meet me for dinner. Come to my hotel. Kiss me. Touch me. If you turn your back to the cameras you can do it ..."

Every night I'm bombarded with endless pathetic entreaties from men so caught up in their deluded fantasies that they forget for a moment that they are paying me to pretend to like them. They are oblivious to the irony that the only person who could possibly handle their fetid breath, boring chat and lack of charm are the women they are married to.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/g2/story/0,3604,843482,00.html

I'm a radical feminist, not the fun kind. -- Andrea Dworkin


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Sophia
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Dec-04-02, 12:49 PM (PMT)
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1. "This line sttod out for me"
 

It's clear that a lot of the guys who come to strip bars are here to get their revenge on women.

Yeah. They are.

Great article.

~Sophia

"In her heart she is a mourner for those who have not survived. In her soul she is a warrior for those who are now as she was then. In her life she is both celebrant and proof of women's capacity and will to survive, to become, to act, to change self and society. And each year she is stronger and there are more of her." ---Andrea Dworkin, "A Battered Wife Survives"

"In her heart she is a mourner for those who have not survived. In her soul she is a warrior for those who are now as she was then. In her life she is both celebrant and proof of women's capacity and will to survive, to become, to act, to change self and society. And each year she is stronger and there are more of her." ---Andrea Dworkin, "A Battered Wife Survives"


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Empower
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Jan-15-03, 02:55 PM (PMT)
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2. "WOW"
 
   Wow. I just came across this now. Printed in The Guardian? Not bad. Glad to see it. Glad for some honesty. Not enough of it. How ironic that the men who do these things cannot be honest with themselves about why they do it. But of course, that would ruin the entire escapade.

It's a real statement about stereotypes when women are denigrated for being in the sex trade when it is the male client who is so stupid he'll actually pay for it.


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Eve
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Jan-16-03, 06:47 AM (PMT)
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3. "sad"
 
   I'm thinking of a coworker I had years ago who was a newlywed. She was intensely beautiful, very smart, and very succesful. Her husband was also attractive and successfull. They seem very balanced and happy. It never failed to baffle me that she accepted his weekend trips to strip clubs with his buddies just as if every man did this.

"No, it doesn't bother me. This is just what guys do. He did it before he married me and it isn't my place to object to it now. If he goes, it will keep him happy and keep our marriage healthy."

And I've also known plenty of women whos husbands keep filthy magazines around and hang posters of women in their basements and who knows what else and it is just "normal."

The thing that kept nagging at me while I read this article was how shamefull the situation is. How ashamed I would feel to see my husband acting like that, or my father, or my son. Their is nothing normal, healthy, or masculine about it. Its just nasty and base. And I can't imagine how it doesn't actually make their wives feel hurt and sad?


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Hearrtadmin
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Jan-16-03, 12:53 PM (PMT)
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4. "Article"
 
   Emp, you know imo the Guardian is the best Western newspaper available. It *consistently* includes feminist articles, essays, reports, and so on. I read it all the time-- MUCH of the time I find US news reported in the Guardian that I never see reported in the US (!) or that is just barely mentioned in the US. (!)

One reason might be that for decades the Guardian's Editor in Chief was a woman (who recently died). If I'm not mistaken she began the publication.

You know, I understand why women get into sex work. I sure wish they wouldn't, of course, but I know all about being poor, needing to support yourself, your kids, trying to get yourself in a better position to do that. What I really wish is that no woman *had* to even *consider* sex work just to survive. http://www.gentlespirit.com/margins/Images/sad.gif";>

What gets to me is the lies-- the way sex workers lie and particularly, the way men lie, not only about sex work, but to themselves.

And what you've posted there, Eve, is tragic. I can't relate. What it makes me wonder is whether they have some kind of deal, i.e., he goes to his strip bars and she has relationships on the side? Or if they don't have that kind of relationship, maybe she's hedging her bets. If she decides to take a lover one day or to leave him, he'll be on shaky ground if he objects, you know? Women do things like that sometimes, and again, I sure can't fault them for it.

Heart

I'm a radical feminist, not the fun kind. -- Andrea Dworkin


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Lynne1
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5. "The beat goes on... :("
 
   LAST EDITED ON Jan-16-03 AT 03:18 PM (PT)

This is an incredible thread. There is something about the way this woman writes that draws me in. There's her immediate content and in the background, "Life goes on" in a voice that has saddness and resignation.

Heart: "What gets to me is the lies-- the way sex workers lie and particularly, the way men lie, not only about sex work, but to themselves."

Yeah they do in some ways that seem strange but that also makes a lot of sense, Heart. There's a book with a name like, "Feminists, Strippers and other Whores" which is a collection vignettes by strippers. There are constant references to how bad or naive feminists are and how it's the sex worker who is in control with their johns, and that illusion of control in concert with the high degree of vulnerability their ocuppational lives is what scares me. That book is written in the same tone, with the same fatalistic resignation of "the beat goes on" but that's all it does is go on and on.... until it doesn't. I think that knowledge is the fatalism and underlying basis for the tone of resignation that is such a common theme for these women who have the courage to write about their experiences.

Lynne


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Hearrtadmin
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6. "More Stripper Stuff"
 
   Following is a review of Elizabeth Eaves' book Bare: On Women, Dancing, Sex and Power. I find the part I've bolded of particular interest to feminists.

The contortionist dance of a peep show worker

By Tracy Quan, Tracy Quan is the author of the novel "Diary of a Manhattan Call Girl" and a contributor to "NYC Sex: How New York City Transformed Sex in America."

Working at a peep show isn't as easy as it looks. Visit the Lusty Lady in Seattle -- its private dressing room along with its enclosed windowed stage (known as "the fish bowl") -- and you will understand why. The dancing girls do not work long grueling shifts -- their shifts may be two to five hours long with frequent 10-minute breaks -- but the work itself requires extreme agility, physical and mental concentration and the unusual ability to be instantly expressive in front of a man you've never met before. A peep show dancer's performance is an elaborate exercise in skirting anti-prostitution laws while providing the maximum degree of titillation. Everything, from the saucy costumes to the gyrating and posing, must compensate for an absence of physical contact between dancer and customer. The result is an erotic niche market that is bewildering to some, profoundly enticing to others.

Between college and grad school, Elisabeth Eaves began working at the Lusty Lady. She had a living to make, and "being sexy was already something of a hobby." Why not parlay this into a job skill? "Bare" retraces the path that led Eaves into and out of sex work. She also follows the lives of four dancers she encountered at the Lusty Lady and, while dishing about her girlfriends, becomes a hard-working skeptical reporter.

Nostalgic observers of the sex industry believe that feminism has ruined commercial sex. They have a point. Some areas of the trade, domination and exotic dancing in particular, are magnets for self-conscious, jargon-spouting college girls who claim to despise the men they service. So it is downright refreshing to encounter a peep show dancer who is not a women's studies major: Before her stint at the Lusty Lady, Eaves studied Arabic in college and spent her junior year in Egypt pursuing a degree in international studies.

There are moments when Eaves comes across as an earnest grad student for whom working at the legal fringes of the sex trade is a rebellious gesture. It's easy to see this as the work of a frivolous feminist jumping on the sex-worker literati bandwagon, and her ominous subtitle, "On Women, Dancing, Sex, and Power," suggests that we are in for another pro-sex feminist lecture. But there are also moments when she writes like a thoughtful humanist who just happens to have been a sex worker, giving us a pleasant vacation from the feminist drumbeat.

Whether she's discussing the nature of her orgasms during a long-distance love affair or the exact placement of her outstretched legs in the private-pleasures booth, there's a touch of nerdy precision that makes me think she must have been good at her job. Indeed, any sexual performer who avoids breaking the law for hours at a stretch has skills that many traditional prostitutes, whose work is more natural and tactile, never have to learn. A peep show dancer excludes human touch and concentrates only on her act.

The peep show dancers at the Lusty Lady are part of a surreal, highly contrived two-way performance. The dancers sound more like self-mocking contortionists -- erotic clowns, perhaps -- than like down-to-earth whores. These ordinary middle-class women transform themselves into scantily clad carnival-esque "creatures." Their middle-class customers are men with ordinary lives who sneak off to the Lusty Lady to act out the quaint cliche of the raincoat-wearing pervert. Call it managed seediness, for they make a sincere effort to be as seedy and sordid as possible, whether buying or selling, without breaking any laws. When you get to know the dancers and customers, you realize that civic-minded crusades against peep show establishments are actually an attack on the values of the middle class.

People may wonder why a nice girl like Eaves would work at a peep show. Sex work has long been a survival strategy for women born into poverty, but none of the women working alongside Eaves is, strictly speaking, poor. They are also educated, and the appeal of sex work for many women (including myself) is that no formal diploma is required to earn a living with your body. So why are women like Eaves attracted to the Lusty Lady? One explanation becomes screamingly apparent as you listen to Eaves and her cohorts: Peep show dancing feeds a basic desire, the desire to be rewarded for your sexuality without having to become a prostitute.

Most of these young women are the feminist version of those Marxist intellectuals who consciously worked in coal mines or on the assembly line. Their stories are an important part of the growing body of sex worker literature. They also create performance art, make edgy documentaries (such as the quirky film "Live Nude Girls Unite!") and attend their fair share of conferences. Strippers, prostitutes and porn stars appear to be united on the bookshelves, but, as with other kinds of writers, there are contentious undercurrents. These undercurrents owe a great deal to the realities of the sex trade, in which, for example, strippers look down on hookers and vice versa.

Exotic dancers aspire to be untouchable and in control, still virtuous in their own fashion. Anything more -- physical contact, that is -- draws fear and suspicion. At the very heart of "Bare" is an inherent anxiety about prostitution, which goes barely explored because Eaves is unwilling to question her basic assumptions about it. Perhaps because she sees hooking as a threat to her identity as a dancer, the most important part of her story is incomplete.

As pornographic as their peep show act might be, Eaves and her peers work hard not to be prostitutes. A dancer's job is to get the customer so aroused that he'll want more, but in this corner of the trade, satisfaction is not guaranteed; it's forbidden. Describing a lap dancer who has committed the cardinal sin of manually satisfying a customer, Eaves begins to sound pathologically afraid, as if this lapsed dancer's act of prostitution might contaminate her. Eaves has embraced her inner vice cop, and she's not letting go. But she uses modern psychobabble to avoid addressing the most ancient moral hang-ups.

Eaves and her peers spend a huge chunk of their working lives defining and protecting what they call their sexual and personal "boundaries." At times, these 21st century American sex workers sound like high school girls from the 1950s debating how far you can go without destroying your reputation. Psychobabble has replaced the more puritanical labels, but the intent has not changed. The liberated secular woman guards her personal boundaries in much the same way that her ancestors guarded their virtue. Some, of course, are better at it than the rest.

Zoe, for example, is a stripper who makes house calls, and she is adamant about never having sex with the men who watch. But when a repeat customer offers her $600 for real sex, it's a tempting dilemma. Because Zoe scoffs at women who have "moral issues" with stripping, outsiders to the sex trade might find her prudish hesitation mind-boggling, and so too would some insiders. A prostitute would jump at the chance to turn this man into a regular client, but Zoe can't make up her mind. The difference between prostitute and stripper is not just in the prostitute's relaxed attitude toward sex: Although a prostitute by nature focuses on the customer, Zoe turns it into a narcissistic dilemma. Zoe's story describes the way so many women -- not just sex workers -- conduct their lives today, declaring themselves more liberated than thou yet fearing the loss of their virtue.

In the end, Eaves renounces "all sexuality for profit." Some readers will say that she is privileged because, unlike many other women, she was able to dabble in the sex trade, then move on to her "real" career. Her renunciation of sexual commerce is reminiscent of the Magdalene houses: 19th century institutions where "fallen women" who were down on their luck could receive shelter and sustenance in exchange for their spiritual salvation. It is easy to understand why a destitute or ailing sex worker would renounce her wayward past and embrace the role of repenting sinner. It came with food, medical care and shelter. But Eaves is no victim of poverty. She has actively chosen the Victorian path of renunciation while cloaking it in the language of late 20th century feminism, and this leads us to wonder whether it is a convenient posture or a case of sexual guilt that can never be entirely washed away.

http://www.calendarlive.com/books/bookreview/cl-bk-quan5jan05,0,2567466.story

Are we actually to the point when sex workers are *presumed* to be "feminists"?!?!

Heart

I'm a radical feminist, not the fun kind. -- Andrea Dworkin


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Hearrtadmin
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7. "And"
 
   How is it that feminists have "ruined commercial sex"?! We WISH!

Heart

I'm a radical feminist, not the fun kind. -- Andrea Dworkin


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Hearrtadmin
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8. "Another article"
 
   Here's another article by a stripper. Pretty darn depressing, but it does tell more of the truth about men, particularly the last paragraph. http://www.gentlespirit.com/margins/Images/sad.gif";>

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/01/26/1043533953099.html

Heart

I'm a radical feminist, not the fun kind. -- Andrea Dworkin


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flightless
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Mar-14-03, 11:35 AM (PMT)
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9. "book"
 
   >a book with a name like,
>"Feminists, Strippers and other Whores" which
>is a collection vignettes by strippers.

Is that "Whores and Other Feminists"? Haven't read it but I think Carol Queen is involved?


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